From Archibald McLachlan   Wednesday 18th. Oct. 1843

Wednesday 18th. Oct. 1843.¹

Your last² came to day – M^r Marquis wrote to me on Sunday morning, told me of C.T.³ – the meeting and of the determination of sending the mem:⁴ as originally intended – the remarks I made were grounded on the above – and before your account came – I never thought he opposed you – only that he demurred in signing – did he oppose? that’s queer!! I don’t think he will speak of Spec:⁵

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I don’t know what change has taken place since. I don’t think any changes have taken place – I think the Commissioners⁶ originally appointed had their appointment still – here they are as they stood in 1837 – William Blamire Esq^re

Captain T. Wentworth Buller R.N.⁷

Reverend Richard Jones.

I can’t make out whether there are any more Commissioners. You observe the 3 distinctions – Blamire Esq^r – he is for the land owners – Buller R.N is for the Admiralty – and Jones is for the Church – each party is to watch and preserve the interests of his Caste – They all act for the general good, but each has a peculiar charge – for instance Jones, looks into and sees that the Church has not been robbed, by mistake, or Bribery &c &c – There are a number of assistant Tithe⁸ Commissioners – for instance Dawson⁹ is one – I think there are only 3 Commissioners, all the rest are assistants – 1 Commissioner for the Church – 1 for the people – 1 for the shipping interest –

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Griffith | Of M^r G. I can only make this much – sometime in 1829 – or towards end of 1829 – he was progressing with the valuation – how long the experiment lasted I can’t make out – I am trying to get all about it from one in Griffith’s office Dublin – if an answer comes, I am afraid it will be too late for next weeks III¹⁰

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Clew Bay¹¹ | In 1836, when I wrote to Hume¹² – Clew Bay was the point taken – thus – by Hodger’s¹³ prospectus, so many counties published – so many in the Engravers hands – so many in the Surveyors office – so many in progress of surveying – Joining all the knowledge we had – the conclusion then was, about 14 counties; I never saw Clew Bay in any document. I took that point as being a conspicuous place, easily found on the map – and as a tolerable fair point from which to draw a line through Dublin – It showed pretty nearly the quantity done – you may shift the line further North if you please, I should say 1/3 of the Island was done – that is not over stating it –

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Veritas¹⁴ | I once thought he was a R.E.¹⁵ – but the thing is so lamely done, that <I> could hardly believe any of them could do such a botch – yet I would not like to swear that an R.E. did not do it!!!

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Colonel’s Ex. | I can’t recollect the date of the Colonel’s¹⁶ examination of Parishes – but on thinking over and over in my bed, and calling over a number of old occurrences – I am inclined to think it was the latter part of 1832 – or Early in 1833–, but I wish you would say 1832 – because one of the parishes was Hollywood¹⁷ which I drew myself – and it was the first parish our Division ever did by lines – the date is doubtful – But I would rather (after long reflection) say 1832, – However the fact is a true fact – A small error in date is of no great consequence.

Engravings –> They were burned or otherwise destroyed – if not destroyed, where are they?

Renwick¹⁸ | I would leave Renwick out altogether.

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Maps destroyed – Those destroyed were to those saved as 3 to 1 – some say 10 to 1 after C^o Down¹⁹ was finished (or before), Portlock²⁰ got the Trig:²¹ new triangulation was made, few of the old points used – Consequently old plans could not be used – if a few in C^o Dublin escaped destruction it was a mercy – that is in our district. They were just in the same scrape all over the Survey – 3 to 1 – !!!? – taking the whole survey they were 20 to 1 –!! – There were but a few saved in each District.

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200.000£ – You know that before 1827 no C.A.²² were employed – and for a long time after, some districts had not many – Taking this into account – and not forgetting the Phenix park²³ – I would say 200.000 was not far off the sum – I have heard it stated to be 200.000 – 150,000 – and so on, – 200.000 is not a bad guess!!

I don’t at present recollect what I told Hume - it was somewhere about 200.000.

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I will look more closely into our levelling – I know the Trig party when they were here made awful work – levelled some lines of main road 3 times!! –

Extracts from the Evidence taken before the Select Committee of the Ho: of Com:²⁴ 1837 – ‘On the Survey of Parishes under the Tithe Commutation Act’

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As I shall refer to these, you may as well peruse them beforehand–

Question 118 –Did you not contemplate at the time you wrote to Spring Rice,²⁵ the necessity for a general survey? – Answer (by W. Balmire)²⁶ – We so far contemplated it, that we thought it would be very imprudent and injudicious in the country not to have it. We have perhaps gone farther, in calling attention to the matter, than we ought to have done by the circulation of Mr Dawson’s reports; but we thought the country ought to be quite aware of the situation in which they stood in that respect.

121 – Did you not propose to the executive Government the having a general S.²⁷ made? – Answer. No doubt we thought it our duty to call the attention of the Government to what we considered might be done advantageously.

123 – Do you then recommend a general S. of all England &c – Answer – Undoubtedly &c &c

142 – Do you think the Land-owners of England are prepared to have the B^dy28 of their Estates, for ever superseding all other evidence, determined by a S. taken behind their backs, that S. being taken, well or ill, as it may turn out, an S. performed by young men, & by contract? Answer I am quite aware that it is a most important consideration &c &c

194 – Did the correspondence with M^r Dawson precede your communication, to Government, or did it follow it? Answer – It preceded it – after being appointed as Commissioners we had communication with Government, which led us to appoint M^r Dawson as an assistant. Upon his appointment, we wished him to take the whole matter into consideration, & he, in consequence of our so doing, sent us those two reports. (those reports contained instructions for the Land-surveyors, entered into statistics – hinted at a general survey and much good scientific stuff all I believe dictated by Carbon)²⁹ –

255 – Had you not contemplated in great detail, the prospective advantages of a general S. – Answer, Certainly we had.

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Answers by – Rev^d R. Jones

349 – If the point of difference be, whether the Proprietor, the Tithe owners, or the State should bear the expense, do you not think, as a National question, it would be very desirable that a S. should be made even though at the National expense? Answer, Certainly, much more desirable if at the National expense than if at the expense of the land-owners.

391 – Are you not taking the question of general policy distinct from the Tithe act? Answer. I separate the subject into 2 parts; I have already stated that which was necessary for the immediate purposes of the Tithe Act. The Committee have now led me to state what I consider politic, independent of the purposes of the Act.

408 – Your views are founded on L^t Dawson’s report? – Answer Yes, all other Surveying work will cease; all the good Surveyors in the country will be at our command the moment this operation commences – Bravo!!

437 – Supposing the S. to proceed, you cannot tell at what time it will be completed throughout all England & Wales? – I think it may be carried on with great rapidity, if we have an unlimited fund to go to – Bravo!!!

499 – Are you to be understood to say that your object in calling the attention of Government to this was a double one; first, as there was a necessity for mapping 2/3 of the kingdom, namely 2/3 of the Titheable Lands, you thought advisable to take the opportunity of getting a general Survey at the public expense of the remaining third? Answer – Certainly!!

500 – Does the last proposition appear in your letter to M^r Spring Rice? – No, I have already stated that we did not think it decorous, when calling the attention of Government to the subject, to chalk out the particular measures, we thought that they would come more properly from this Committee – Good – cunning – very deep– –!!

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Answers by Dawson

645 – What is your idea of centralization? – Answer It would be better, perhaps, if I am to express my opinion to the Committee, that it should be entirely in a central office in London, or, if in the country, that the whole should be divided into 3 Districts, there might be an office established in each district, in which the plans should be received as sent in from the district Surveyors & by the contractors, &c &c –

659 – Would it be necessary still to have some central controlling authority in London? – I think there must be a central controlling authority in London.

660 – Some such person as Colonel Colby in Ireland? – Yes, the orders must proceed from one office

The following question relates to Surveyors of his proposed Districts – or his district, principal managing Surveyors –

678 – Do you expect you should find any difficulty in procuring surveyors competent to undertake that business? – No, a sufficient number might readily be found, such as are employed in the Ordnance Survey. Young men, well educated in the business of surveying, active and intelligent –

696 – That Patronage you propose to rest in the central controlling Board in London? Answer The responsibility would be theirs, & they should have the Selection of the Parties.

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The above are a few of the questions I shall refer to – Some difficulty was encountered by the Commissioners in certifying the maps, Dawson advised a Committee and try to get up a Government Survey – and this was the Principal Cause of the Committee being appointed – Sir James Graham gives them all a horrible cross examination. The whole manoeuver was easily seen through Carbon was at the bottom of it – however it was no go – ¼ past 1 o’clock time to go to bed – B³⁰

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