WCP7288

[1]¹

Copy. Letter from Sir C. Lyell² to M^r Ramsay³ –

Hull

17. April ’69

Your letter was sent to me when I was on the move studying the drifts of the Suffolk & Norfolk Crusts & of Hoderness. I was glad to hear that you had been telling Mr Hansard⁴ how a good curator Mr Wallace⁵ would make. I think in Ethnology & Natural History & in the art of making the Museum a good educational Institution for the working classes he would be unrivalled – If M^r Hansard has not seen his Paper⁶ on Museums you would do well to get a copy from Wallace & give it to him[.]

[2] I think it as well to tell you what I know of this matter that you may communicate with the Rector of Bethnal Green who I am sure would consider the information as confidential & not commit me for I am very desirous to have nothing to do with the management of or arrangement of the affair.

Sharing the misgiving of some of your friends as to the possible designs of S. Kensington in making use of the E. London in the way you hint. I had a conversation with Lord de Grey,⁷ begged him to read the certificate we sent in to his predecessor in office in favor of Wallace & the desire entertained by scientific men [3] that the museum should be filled with such objects as would interest & educate the people. I found as I expected that his views were such as would be approved by you & me; but that he was ^{had been} a good deal taken aback by finding that the late Government had left a minute of instruction in wh the objects as to what the museum has intended to be in wh no allusion whatever to Nat. Hist. or any kindred subjects was made. Lord de Grey had marked ^observed what I haved said of Wallace in my ^the last Edition of my ‘Principles’ & after I had given him W’s pamphlet on the use of Museums, he asked to be introduced to him & to an an interview & was [4] much pleased with him as he afterwards told me. Before this meeting I had learnt from Mr Forster⁸ vice President of the Council that the difficulty in the House of Commons was that if any steps were taken by the Governt to multiply small British Museums over London the same ought to be done by aid of the public money for Manchester[,] Liverpool, Bradford & other large towns – The less therefore that was said of obtaining duplicate from the Brit. Museum the better.

In reference to this Wallace suggested in his conversation with the President of the Council that they should get the India House to lend them the objects of the Nat. Hist. of wh they could make no use for the want of room [5] & which were locked up in their cellars[.] 2{Lord de Grey told me that he had spoken about this to the Duke of Argyll⁹ who said he hoped to get a room in the India House for ^{to display} these objects[.] 1{Private individuals would soon complete this by donations & a useful set of types might be formed which might even be more Teaching than the Brit. Museum – Someday afterwards[.] 3{thinking naturally that this was their more appropriate destination. As I perceived that the minute before alluded to seemed to fetter Lord de Grey I spoke about it with the Home Sec^y Mr Bruce¹⁰ who felt sure that the government need not be so much tied down by it[.] [6] Soon after I met the Chancellor of the Exchequer¹¹ & talked fully with him on the matter – He agreed in the first-place that the Brit. Museum proved how the working classes were interested with the Nat. Hist. & he said that he should have no hesitation in advancing the money if Lord de Grey took the liberty of interpreting the minute as allowing them to make the collection instructive in that branch of knowledge amongst others – When I mentioned this to Lord de Grey he was well pleased & seemed hardly to ^have expected but that Mr Lowe would be so encouraging that ^but I reminded him that Parliament had pledged itself to spend a certain sum on the Kensington Museum [7] whereas some other projects on wh the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thrown cold water would require fresh grants from the public purse –

Lord de Grey assured me that he felt most fervently inclined towards M^r Wallace but that nothing had been decided yet as to what start they were to have for working the Museum so that he could promise nothing at present – I confess I do not feel quite easy on the subject because I see that our rulers are occupied with so many pressing measures that they have no time to think of those which can possibly be deferred – & in the meantime I begged fear that activity in other quarters may make [8]¹² the interest of Bethnal Green subordinate to the convenience or scheming of S. Kensington – you are at liberty to show this letter to Mr Hansard if you please[.]

P.S. I forgot to say that Mr Lowe remarked that the Nat. Hist objects might be safely borrowed from the India House into a promise that they sh^d. be returned as soon as they had a room ready to receive them because by this time there [illeg.] day <may?> arrive the public w^d be too well accustomed to their forming part of the attractions of the Museum to allow them to depart without others being substituted.